{"id":2857,"date":"2011-06-14T22:01:18","date_gmt":"2011-06-15T05:01:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/?p=2857"},"modified":"2018-06-23T11:12:42","modified_gmt":"2018-06-23T18:12:42","slug":"bc-hydro-chief-regarding-smart-meters","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/?p=2857","title":{"rendered":"BC Hydro Chief regarding Smart Meters"},"content":{"rendered":"<div data-mode=\"normal\" data-oembed=\"1\" data-provider=\"youtube\" id=\"arve-youtube-ypnlkpsu8vs\" style=\"max-width:900px;\" class=\"arve\">\n<div class=\"arve-inner\">\n<div style=\"aspect-ratio:4\/3\" class=\"arve-embed arve-embed--has-aspect-ratio\">\n<div class=\"arve-ar\" style=\"padding-top:75.000000%\"><\/div>\n<p>\t\t\t<iframe allow=\"accelerometer &apos;none&apos;;autoplay &apos;none&apos;;bluetooth &apos;none&apos;;browsing-topics &apos;none&apos;;camera &apos;none&apos;;clipboard-read &apos;none&apos;;clipboard-write;display-capture &apos;none&apos;;encrypted-media &apos;none&apos;;gamepad &apos;none&apos;;geolocation &apos;none&apos;;gyroscope &apos;none&apos;;hid &apos;none&apos;;identity-credentials-get &apos;none&apos;;idle-detection &apos;none&apos;;keyboard-map &apos;none&apos;;local-fonts;magnetometer &apos;none&apos;;microphone &apos;none&apos;;midi &apos;none&apos;;otp-credentials &apos;none&apos;;payment &apos;none&apos;;picture-in-picture;publickey-credentials-create &apos;none&apos;;publickey-credentials-get &apos;none&apos;;screen-wake-lock &apos;none&apos;;serial &apos;none&apos;;summarizer &apos;none&apos;;sync-xhr;usb &apos;none&apos;;web-share;window-management &apos;none&apos;;xr-spatial-tracking &apos;none&apos;;\" allowfullscreen=\"\" class=\"arve-iframe fitvidsignore\" credentialless data-arve=\"arve-youtube-ypnlkpsu8vs\" data-lenis-prevent=\"\" data-src-no-ap=\"https:\/\/www.youtube-nocookie.com\/embed\/yPnLKpsu8vs?feature=oembed&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;modestbranding=1&amp;rel=0&amp;autohide=1&amp;playsinline=0&amp;autoplay=0\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"675\" loading=\"lazy\" name=\"\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-presentation allow-popups allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube-nocookie.com\/embed\/yPnLKpsu8vs?feature=oembed&#038;iv_load_policy=3&#038;modestbranding=1&#038;rel=0&#038;autohide=1&#038;playsinline=0&#038;autoplay=0\" title=\"\" width=\"900\"><\/iframe><\/p><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>\t<script type=\"application\/ld+json\">{\"@context\":\"http:\\\/\\\/schema.org\\\/\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/emrabc.ca\\\/?p=2857#arve-youtube-ypnlkpsu8vs\",\"type\":\"VideoObject\",\"embedURL\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.youtube-nocookie.com\\\/embed\\\/yPnLKpsu8vs?feature=oembed&iv_load_policy=3&modestbranding=1&rel=0&autohide=1&playsinline=0&autoplay=0\"}<\/script><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>Merrit Newspaper\u00a0Editor John O&#8217;Connor \u00a0interviews <strong>BC Hydro chief project officer Gary Murphy<\/strong>, June 9, 2011. Includes comments on the fluctuating marijuana grow operation numbers BC Hydro has used in justifying implementation of smart meters, health concerns over the meters, possibility of using ITRON&#8217;s wired system, and implementation schedule.<br \/>\nPictured in the photo is Juan de Fuca MLA John Horgan, official energy critic, at the BC Legislature with protesters.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Transcript from Video :<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>JO: I have a few questions about the Smart Meters.\u00a0 Are they starting to be installed here in BC? I know it said summer of 2011.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, we expect our first meter to be installed in July, John.<\/p>\n<p>Jo: That\u2019s going to be province wide,\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 what\u2019s the completion date?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 End of December, 2012. We\u2019ll have the vast majority of them completed.<\/p>\n<p>JO: Are there any areas that will be exempt?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Our intention is to cover 99% of our customer.\u00a0 We think that\u2019s reasonable. There\u2019s always that last 1% that is very expensive and it just doesn\u2019t become cost effective.\u00a0 We have a couple of areas of the province that are very remote that we won\u2019t be able to cover.<\/p>\n<p>JO: With billing, I understand the intention is not to access any customer\u2019s real time consumption.\u00a0 Can BC Hydro guarantee that\u2019s not going to occur in the future?\u00a0 Is that a permanent thing?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 As far as I know, that\u2019s a permanent thing.\u00a0 We don\u2019t have technical access to the information.\u00a0 If the customer had an in-home feedback device on their home because they were interested in how much energy they were consuming on a real time basis, they would be the only ones who could see that. We would not have access to that. \u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0 all encrypted and all that other stuff,\u00a0 much like on-line banking.<\/p>\n<p>JO: So only customers who chose to take advantage of in-home feedback devices will have access?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 To real-time data like we just talked about?\u00a0 But every customer who has a Smart Meter will be able to have, free of charge, access to a portal, a website that will allow them to see their individual usage on an hour by hour basis.<\/p>\n<p>JO: So that\u2019s not considered a real time usage that BC Hydro will have access to?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That information is what we will be basing our bills on in the future, so yes,\u00a0 we clearly need that.<\/p>\n<p>JO: What was the reason for going with the wireless meter as opposed to a wired\u00a0meter?<\/p>\n<p>G; Good question, John. We looked at a variety of technologies that would best fit the make- up of our province, the unique characteristics of the topography and the customer density. We evaluated actually a power line carrier [PLC] technology,\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 but the cost was simply prohibitive, John, they were orders of magnitude,\u00a0 100\u2019s of millions\u00a0 of dollars\u00a0 more, frankly to use that technology that the one that we employed. Also, that technology had significant limitations with regard to some of the additional smart grid functionality that would be leveraged off of the backbone that we build. Clearly that is of long term interest relative to our grid modernization strategy.<\/p>\n<p>JO: From what I understand, Telus has actually stated that going to something like a fiber optic, for example, would not cost more than wireless. Do you have the data showing the increase in cost going to a wired system?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I don\u2019t have that handy, but there have been several utilities in the States that have started with fiber orBroadband over Powerline and they pulled the plug on those programs.\u00a0\u00a0 Simply way too expensive. The concept is nice, but in practicality, John, it just wasn\u2019t working<\/p>\n<p>JO: I understand Itron has the contract for BC Hydro Meters?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 you bet.<\/p>\n<p>J I have a copy of their annual report from 2005 or 2008 and it\u2019s stating that they actually can use a wired systemthat it is possible in Itron\u2019s technology.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What they are probably indicating is that their meter may be compatible with another vendor\u2019s communications system, but that is\u00a0not being offered in the market and frankly our recent discussions with them have indicated that a Power Line Carrier solution, which may address some of the role, \u00a0communities that I spoke of, \u00a0is on their road map, but they are not willing to make any commitments as to when it would be available. But sure that\u2019s of interest to us.\u00a0 If there are some unique circumstances where that technology would be beneficial, we\u2019re leaving that on the table.<\/p>\n<p>JO: I understand there\u2019s quite a bit of protest over the wireless meters from a group who have electrohypersensitivity [EHS]?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We are certainly aware of a small vocal community of people who have concerns about RF and we try to answer their questions and have been very pro-active around that.<\/p>\n<p>JO: We spoke with BC Hydro a few months ago and they said they would be willing to work with people who had these sensitivities. Has there been any progress on what exactly will be done?<\/p>\n<p>G.M: We\u2019re actually going to do that on a case by case basis. First of all, John, we\u2019re not going to force meters down on people that have had these concerns. We\u2019ll put those folks on to the end of the program. We\u2019re looking at alternatives. There are a number of things we can do. We will want to discuss those particular alternatives with whatever the particular situation is of the individual.<\/p>\n<p>JO:\u00a0 In some of the open houses, there was some talk of putting a panel together to address some of the issues of these people, to work out a solution?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m not aware of a panel, but the lines of communication are open, it\u2019s not that we won\u2019t talk to you. But we just keep saying the same message: \u201cI understand your concern, but 20 years of exposure to a Smart Meter is equal to one 30 minute cellphone call.\u201d\u00a0 I mean, that\u2019s the difference between the kind of technology that has become commonplace and the Smart Meters. We help people try to put this into perspective.<\/p>\n<p>JO: I\u2019ve spoken to some of these people who have these sensitivities and I think some of their worries are\u2026..I know that BC Hydro states that the\u00a0 emissions from the meters would be minimal,\u00a0\u00a0only lasting a few minutes at a time, but their fears are that they would be going on a more constant basis.<\/p>\n<p>G.M: \u00a0Right. That\u2019s simply not true; the architecture does not allow that. The meters only communicate 4- 6 times a day when they are requested to send information and for a total period of 53 seconds on average.\u00a0 This is way in the background of the kind of exposure that they might be concerned about.<\/p>\n<p>J.O: Would a possible compromise be that Hydro would install a wired meter, similar to some of them in Ontario for these hypersensitive people?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019re looking at all those options. We\u2019re not insensitive to this issue. We\u2019re going to find ways to work with that, that Power Line Carrier technology, if that becomes available and is cost effective, we\u2019d be all over that.<\/p>\n<p>So sure, we have open communications with regard to people who have concerns.<\/p>\n<p>J.O:\u00a0\u00a0 Just last week the World Health Organization, the data has been coming out that they have linked cancer with cellphones, for example.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, significant exposure to cell phones got the designation of possibly carcinogenic, which is ya know\u2026\u2026\u2026. it joins the ranks of coffee and Styrofoam cups and pickled vegetables, that are also on that list.\u00a0 But again, you know, our meters are below the lowest standards, the strictest standards in the world.\u00a0 Even those that are based on the Precautionary Principle that is often used by some of these folks, Switzerland has standards that are based on this Precautionary Principle.\u00a0 We\u2019re below that when you are standing 8 inches from the meter.<\/p>\n<p>JO: As a consumer, consumer, concerned with\u00a0 (\u2026??), Why would I have any risk, even a small risk.? Thats maybe some of their concerns.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Then you have to get into helping people put things into perspective. We are exposed to known carcinogens every day from the sun, and yet we have found a way to adapt to that, because the risk is obviously low enough for us to be comfortable with the consequences, right?\u00a0 Some people are more sensitive and they adapt their life accordingly.\u00a0\u00a0 You could put these meters on the whole spectrum of potential exposure\u00a0 (\u2026\u2026??)\u00a0 and this thing would be at the low end of any reasonable potential exposure to RF of any reasonable technologies that would employ that.<\/p>\n<p>J.O: We have heard BC Hydro\u2019s health advisor saying that he doesn\u2019t want to hide behind <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/?s=safety+code+6\">Safety Code 6<\/a><\/strong>, which is Health Canada\u2019s \u2013 you could argue contentious \u2013 code because it seems to be out of date and even Blatherwick admits that.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, sure, standards are always being reviewed.\u00a0 Every year, data is being reviewed and then standards are updated.\u00a0 In fact, <a href=\"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/?s=Blatherwick\">Professor Blatherwick<\/a> basically said that over 30 years, 25,000 studies have been done and none of them have linked, in a definitive way, RF to cancer.<\/p>\n<p>JO: But the WHO does list emr as a carcinogen.<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I caution anybody to take the sound bite and don\u2019t read the article, to again put that in perspective and again put cell phone use into perspective with what we are talking about with Smart Meters and clearly they are not even in the same ballpark.<\/p>\n<p>J.O: Just switching gears for a moment.\u00a0 I understand a large reason why Hydro has argued for SMs is due to theft of hydroelectricity, the marijuana grow-ops and what-not.\u00a0\u00a0 It seems that the numbers of reported theft have varied significantly.\u00a0 The numbers have gone from $12 million\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0to $30 million\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0right now its at $100 million\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Have they really been changing that much over a mere 2 years? \u00a0Are the numbers verifiable?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019re very comfortable and confident with the numbers we have today.\u00a0 The 100 million per year which is being stolen is conservative, at the low end of the range.\u00a0 The numbers have changed over the years for a couple of reasons.<\/p>\n<p>When we 1st started to look at that at the urging of BCUC, we did not have a good\u00a0 handle on the magnitude of the problem.<\/p>\n<p>At that time, the BC Chamber of Commerce back in 2004\u00a0\u00a0said that our estimate of hydro theft through grow ops is 100 to 200 million per year, and we said we think it\u2019s 12.\u00a0 We just did not have our facts together in fact.\u00a0\u00a0Since then we\u2019ve begun a concerted effort of building up our data base.\u00a0 And we\u2019ve converged on this number through several different ways:<\/p>\n<p>Engineering studies of line losses,<\/p>\n<p>Studies that we\u2019ve done at the RCMP and Dr.\u00a0\u00a0Plecket<\/p>\n<p>and our own internal data base which has grown substantially.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve converged on a number that we\u2019re confident and comfortable in.<\/p>\n<p>One last thing is that, in 2006, when the safety standards act was enacted, a number of grow-ops started to steal electricity instead of paying for it to avoid detection from the municipalities, and that was a huge driver and that caused some of the acceleration.<\/p>\n<p>J.O:\u00a0\u00a0 Speaking of theft,\u00a0\u00a0I know that Hydro is confident in the security of the wireless system, but would not awired system such as Itron offers be absolutely more secure than a wireless system?<\/p>\n<p>G.M:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0We\u2019re very very confident that the system we put in is very very secure.<\/p>\n<p>We have a &#8220;defense in depth strategy&#8221; that is second to none, and every component, the way data is encrypted and sent, this kind of\u00a0\u00a0air traps that we put in that prevents upward introduction of viruses up into our technology.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, we have this so well understood and nailed.<\/p>\n<p>And you know, John, we also have brought in ethical hackers, independent, to actually challenge the security of our solutions, and we\u2019ll be incorporating the concerns\u2026..<\/p>\n<p>No system is 100% secure and we keep running and adapting and putting in place the steps to evolve as the potential threat evolves<\/p>\n<p>J.O:\u00a0\u00a0 Just one last question SM, are they going to be for small businesses, restaurants\u2026..?<\/p>\n<p>G: Yes, absolutely. Every distribution customer in the province, commercial, industrial, residential will have Smart Meters. They are a potential significant user of that information to help improve their energy usage and their bill.<\/p>\n<p>J.O:\u00a0\u00a0 I guess this ongoing thing with regard to the EHS people,<\/p>\n<p>Hydro is going to continue to communicate with them on options? and what not?<\/p>\n<p>G: You bet,\u00a0\u00a0We will continue to communicate with those folks and we do.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll keep that up.<\/p>\n<p>J.O:\u00a0\u00a0 OK, sir, thanks very much for your time<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Merrit Newspaper\u00a0Editor John O&#8217;Connor \u00a0interviews BC Hydro chief project officer Gary Murphy, June 9, 2011. Includes comments on the fluctuating marijuana grow operation numbers BC Hydro has used in justifying implementation of smart meters, health concerns over the meters, possibility of using ITRON&#8217;s wired system, and implementation schedule. Pictured in the photo is Juan de [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[20,58,70,17,109,105,78,108],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2857","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-ami-smart-meter","category-bchydro","category-blatherwick-2","category-bc","category-cisco","category-gary-murphy","category-hard-wired","category-itron"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2857","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2857"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2857\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13275,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2857\/revisions\/13275"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2857"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2857"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emrabc.ca\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2857"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}